[WXBH-Discuss] ISDN and DSL and 802 as microwave link

Fri Jun 2 15:49:07 EDT 2006

actually i am very glad this discussion is not on the technical list yet because i am learning alot and thats why i got involved with this organization from the start was to keep learning... i think i would like to be added to the tech list and will keep it read-only just for the sake of expanding my concept and operations foundation

  thanks guys

Cory R <coryri at gmail.com> wrote:
  The ISDN line does sound like a good idea honestly, the less
complicated it can be would be the best way to go about it. As far as
Cool Edit goes we may want to look at something like audacity
(http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) which does everything just fine and
is opensource (like our radio station!) and free (as in price and
freedom.).

On 5/31/06, topdog at woofer.com wrote:
> Hi cory,
>
> I didn't know there was a separate technical mailing list. I would love to be
> on that one and off of this one. If whoever is in charge of doing that is
> reading this post...
>
> The ISDN modem that I used was called a Telos Zephyr. I was trying to look it
> up on Google, but I typed it in in eBay by mistake. Alas, there is one for
> sale for a small fraction of its new price. I'm not suggesting that this is
> what we get but just to show you the quality of the unit and the fact that a
> 128K digital line can have quality. Check it out at
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Telos-Zephyr-9202-Network-Audio-Transceiver-ISDN-NR_W0QQitemZ7418782070QQcategoryZ3278QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
> .
>
> Of course, we would need 2 of them. The seller lists the codecs that it is
> compatible with. You seem to know more about these than I do so maybe you can
> research the compatible codecs or find Telos's site like I meant to and see
> their entire line and get all the specs you want. I am an audio engineer by
> profession and I must tell you that the quality was great. I could listen to
> the return feed of my live program and it sounded just like the source (but
> delayed by about a second).
>
> The reason I prefer ISDN is because it is a direct line. It can't be
> hacked by
> anyone on the internet because it never touches the internet. It is basically
> a 128K digital phone line. If someone wants to hack you, they would have to
> physically tap the phone line. Hence, the down time would be about the
> same as
> a regular phone line. At home or work, my power probably goes out 3 or
> 4 times
> a year. I can't ever recall when I've had a problem with my phone (at least
> the physical line).
>
> I wish I could say that about DSL - but I can't. Look at what happened to
> Insight just a few weeks ago. Plus, those are not direct connections. I know
> we don't have to hit the web itself to make this work. You would have more
> knowledge than I about PPP or FTP or the other modes but I know we are at the
> mercy of the provider's equipment.
>
> Either way, I think uploading of MP3's might be a good idea. Nobody ever said
> that we would have to be a LIVE station to be on the air. The speed of the
> line wouldn't matter at all then. I don't know what all this would entail -
> remote control software...
>
> Someone quoted a price of $400 per month for a dedicated line and I know that
> ISDN is only $100 per month so that's why I suggested it.
>
> The Ogg Vorbis sounds viable. I read a bit about it months ago when I
> found it
> was a plug-in for Cool Edit (i.e. Adobe Audition). BTW, Adobe is the
> DAW used
> by Clear Channel if anyone cares. Pete? The Public Radio Partnership
> uses SAW.
> I know a bit about both. So, if we license multiple copies of Audition, we
> will have a built-in Ogg Generator / Decoder.
>
> Of course, ideally, we would have the transmitter in a different place
> and could
> go with 802.11. I just don't see that as an option at present.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Cory R :
>
> > Paul,
> >
> > This discussion needs to be made in the Technical mailing list.
> >
> > It's a big mess any way you look at it. ISDN is slow, at the last meeting
> > it sounded as if everyone just wanted to upload mp3's to the server, which
> > would be ok if we weren't broadcasting live and we had a multiple day buffer
> > time, that would actually allow for us to get dsl and whatnot. Iglou is
> > running a deal for 1.5mb/256kb at $29.95/mo, which would be quite nice.
> > Since the antenna location wouldn't need any significant upload.
> >
> > By speed on the 802.11 link I was referring to overall bandwidth and latency
> > times. I'm really unsure how fast microwave is now but last I checked
> > (probably 6+ years ago) it was sitting around 5mbps. The idea location
> > would be at the Brick House or near a surrounding building. So we would
> > skip the internet completely. Although I'll start looking for ISDN modems
> > and looking at software for that. Seeing that we're wanting to do internet
> > radio (I'll actually be setting up an icecast server sometime today) also,
> > it will probably be just as easy to pull that stream down from the web at
> > the antenna location rather than streaming it over the ISDN.
> >
> > As far as encoding audio, I would either recommend mp3, or ogg vorbis (
> > http://www.vorbis.com/) formats rather than mp4. Licensing issues aside I
> > think for practical reasons it would be alot better to just stick with mp3
> > and/or ogg. Something interesting I found on the net was
> > http://www.xciv.org/~meta/audio-shootout/. I don't see a need to use the
> > mp4 format on what we're doing anyway since it may require licensing and
> > since radio isn't exactly the highest quality of sound anyway. I'd say
> > stick to mp3 or ogg vorbis.
> >
> > Cory
> >
> >
> > On 5/31/06, topdog at woofer.com wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Cory,
> >>
> >> ISDN is an Integrated Subscriber Digital Network. It could be used to get
> >> to
> >> the internet - but it is actually a digital line provided by the telephone
> >> company. As I understand it, it is not a "dedicated" line (you still have
> >> to
> >> dial a phone number (or SPID) but once a connection is 3established, it
> >> will be
> >> linked at that speed indefinitely.
> >>
> >> The 802.11 link would not be any faster than microwave. Both are moving
> >> at the
> >> speed of light. The main advantage is that the equipment would be much
> >> cheaper
> >> (and safer) than microwaves. We could build our own antennas for that
> >> part of
> >> it too. Some people have modified Pringles cans. But that link is only
> >> going
> >> to work Line of Sight - and you can't try to stop anyone who is building
> >> something in your way. I think that the Kentucky Towers across the street
> >> is
> >> the only feasible way to do line of sight communications. It is possible
> >> that
> >> Ky Towers might have a view of the "flashcube" building but not likely
> >> given
> >> their distance apart and heights. Even if they did, we would have to get
> >> permission from the Tower to use it as a "hop" point. No sense in paying 2
> >> places for rent.
> >>
> >> I still think that ISDN would be our best (and cheapest) bet for now. If
> >> you
> >> can, use your talents to find some ISDN modems and a codec
> >> algorithm. ISDN is
> >> very slow next to DSL so a high compression algorithm is need to code and
> >> decode. I hear that MP4 is quite nice but I don't know if it needs to be
> >> commecially licensed for use... If you could find out, that would be
> >> great.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >>
> >>
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